1.1. The Name Order / 창씨개명 ¶
How did the Name Order (創氏改名) affect the Korean names during the Japanese Occupation of the 1940s, other than Koreans can't write them in Han-geul anymore?
1) Surname
I thought the Name Order means forcibly changing to a completely whole new traditional Japanese surname, like Takahashi or Yamamoto. But I just read about the patriotic 
Sohn_Kee-chung (손기정) and Nam_Sung-yong (남승룡) today, and their surnames were changed into Son and Nan, respectively. Aren't they just the Japanese pronunciations of the Hanja of their names, and the names are still written in the same Hanja, or Kanji from the Japanese's perspective?
Sohn_Kee-chung (손기정) and Nam_Sung-yong (남승룡) today, and their surnames were changed into Son and Nan, respectively. Aren't they just the Japanese pronunciations of the Hanja of their names, and the names are still written in the same Hanja, or Kanji from the Japanese's perspective?The names of overseas Chinese living in Japan were read like Kanji as well. For example, Wu_Qingyuan is called Go Seigen. And Chinese historical persons are also read in Japanese pronunciation in Japan, for example Zheng_Chenggong is read as Tei Seikō.
Wu_Qingyuan is called Go Seigen. And Chinese historical persons are also read in Japanese pronunciation in Japan, for example Zheng_Chenggong is read as Tei Seikō.If so, isn't the Name Order then a by-product of Koreans having to speak Japanese, hence pronouncing the proper nouns in Japanese reading as well?
2) Given name
How about given names?
It seems like the two Olympians' given names were also read in Japanese pronunciation: Kitei and Shoryu. But I have heard of newborns named in completely Japanese give names, like Namiko or Hanako, where -ko is definitely Japanese (子).
So is it generally the newborns' names in Japanese, while the rest's names were just read in Japanese?
3) Conformity
83 % of the Koreans conform to this Japanese regulation. Why so high? And what happened to the other 17%? Imprisoned? Had special rights?
-- Menchi, 2003년 6월 6일 (金)
I'm sorry for my terrible English.
1)
- No. Their name were still written in the same Hanja in that time, but they were awarded in '1936 Summer Olympic', and the 'Name Order' began in 1940. In that time, their names were not changed under 'Name Order' yet.
- No. It isn't
2) No.- No. It isn't
3) Later...
--ChatMate
Some of my answers for this questions may be stereotyped because it is written by a spiritual descendant of so many victims from Japanese possession. But, most of the documents in English you research on this subject are from Japanese source; the views will conflict. --PuzzletChung
I am interested in Korean sirnames and once have researched them, but didn't see any one derived from the Name Order from Japan. And no one would proudly announce that his/her name is a heritage from Japan; most Koreans think of Japanese possession on Korea as the major disgrace.
--PuzzletChung
- Coincidence that both names of Sohn_Kee-chung (손기정) and Nam_Sung-yong (남승룡) can also be written in Japanese without loss of pronounciation. Their names are definitely a derivation of Korean, (one syllable for sirname, two for rest.) I don't know how Japanese people pronounciate their name, but I guess that pronounciation of "n"'s in the last of the syllable like "Son" and "Nan" are very seldom used in Japan.
Sure it is the by-product of Japanese enforcement not to speak and write in Korean but Japanese, but they force to change the hanja of sirnames in Japanese-usual form (two hanjas for sirname, thus three or four syllables in the Japanese pronounciation) as well.
- Unlike Koreans who have thought names are important for his/her life, Japaneses are known to have named newborns in the custom. I have heard that Taro, Jiro, Saburo, (meaning first child, second child, third child, respectively,) had been the most common names for boys. And '-ko's for girls. Koreans did so too until 60's and 70's; the names of most women born that time ends with '子' and '順'.
But most names are written in Hanja in Japan, and Korea until late 80's, when non-Hanja names became somewhat popular.
- Without any stereotype, I don't believe that Japan really had taken that sort of census, and the majority of Koreans agreed for that regulation.
--PuzzletChung
Thank you, PuzzletChung. Like the Korean Occupation, the Taiwanese Occupation has also been considered a disgrace by the locals. Those Japanese "archaeologists" who falsified date to suit their nationalistic purposes have no work ethics. But there are also a slowly growing number of Japanese historians who admit their country's mistakes, and they research into those dark past honestly.
s1. I found a list of Korean writers and journalists who changed their names from Saga Women's Junior College, one of whose specializations is Korean Studies. It's![[http]](/ns/imgs/http.png)
here, and the list is at the end of the page.
Have you heard of those Koreans? Is any of them famous?
a Korean encyclopedia article, it says: "관향(貫鄕)을 땄으며, ‘山川草木’ ‘靑山白水’ ‘에하라 노하라(江原 ·野原)’ 등으로 장난삼아 짓거나, 성(姓)을 가는 놈은 개자식이라 해서 ‘犬子’"
This Korean page has some info on Korean surnames in general and specifically on Name Order as well.
s3. A:s1. I found a list of Korean writers and journalists who changed their names from Saga Women's Junior College, one of whose specializations is Korean Studies. It's
here, and the list is at the end of the page.Have you heard of those Koreans? Is any of them famous?
The last person, 朴正煕, the High Commander -- Was he a collaborator with the Japanese?
s2. And in a Korean encyclopedia article, it says: "관향(貫鄕)을 땄으며, ‘山川草木’ ‘靑山白水’ ‘에하라 노하라(江原 ·野原)’ 등으로 장난삼아 짓거나, 성(姓)을 가는 놈은 개자식이라 해서 ‘犬子’"So 山川草木, 靑山白, and 江原·野原 are example names, and 犬子 is an example given name?
s3.This Korean page has some info on Korean surnames in general and specifically on Name Order as well.a) So on 1946년 10월 23 일, the new Korean government issued the 조선성명복구령(朝鮮姓名復舊令)? (Although obviously the Koreans would've changed gladly with or without the 조선성명복구령.)
b) What is 내선일체(內鮮一體)? "Internal Korean Unification"... the Cooperation between Koreans shortly between the Annexation?
-- Menchi, June 9, 2003b) What is 내선일체(內鮮一體)? "Internal Korean Unification"... the Cooperation between Koreans shortly between the Annexation?
So on 1946년 10월 23 일, the new Korean government issued the 조선성명복구령(朝鮮姓名復舊令)? (Although obviously the Koreans would've changed gladly with or without the 조선성명복구령.)
Original has "1946년 10월 23 일 미군정이 공포한 조선성명복구령(朝鮮姓名復舊令)에 따라". Translation would be "American military administration issued Name Restoration Order on Oct 23, 1946." So it is *not* issued by Korean government. Actually, South Korean government is established in 1948, so in 1946 there was no such thing. You are very correct in that "obviously Koreans would've changed gladly without any order".
What is 내선일체(內鮮一體)? "Internal Korean Unification"... the Cooperation between Koreans shortly between the Annexation?
Laugh Out Loud! No insult intended, but it's just really funny that you can understand it that way. While Japanese occupied Korean peninsula, they called four islands of Japan 내지(內地). You see, "inner land" and "mainland" is not that different. So 내선일체(內鮮一體) actually means, "Japanese mainland and Korean peninsula should be like one. We are not colonizing you. We will be equal. Give up your damn culture quickly and learn superior Japanese ones. After all, we are all descended from common ancestor, as Japanese ruled southern part of Korea in the ancient time, blah blah blah." Of course, the last sentence is their lie. It is a strategic expression used by Japanese colonists to abolish Korean culture.
--서상현
:-D Concise phrases are sometimes ambiguous. It is funny how I misunderstood something Japanese into something Korean! --Mench, June 9, 2003
I have much to say of reason for Korean conformity of Name Order.
You asked: 83% of the Koreans conform to this Japanese regulation. Why so high? And what happened to the other 17%? Imprisoned? Had special rights? And then, PuzzletChung answered (IMHO, wrongly): Without any stereotype, I don't believe that Japan really had taken that sort of census, and the majority of Koreans agreed for that regulation.
To PuzzletChung: No. If my understanding is correct, they indeed have statistics, and 83% is just a fact. You don't need to deny that. To Menchi: Why so high? I would answer, why so low, if you think of *WHAT JAPANESE DID TO THOSE WHO REFUSED NAME ORDER*. Imprisoned, is one of them. Indeed, you already saw this (although you might not understood). The following is the translation from Korean encyclpedia article, *cited by you*.
조선총독부는 이를 관헌을 동원해서 협박과 강요로 강행, 창씨를 하지 않는 자의 자제에게는 각급 학교의 입학을 거부하고 창씨하지 않는 호주는 비국민, 후테이센징(不逞鮮人)의 낙인을 찍어 사찰미행을 철저히 하고 노무징용의 우선대상으로 삼거나 식량 등의 배급대상에서 제외하는 등 갖은 사회적 제재를 가하였다.
朝鮮總督府 (I couldn't find suitable translation. You know Hanja...) enforced the Name Order, by means of threat and extortion, using the power of the police. They rejected school admission of any children whose parents didn't follow the Name Order; branded those who refused as "non-citizen" (you may consider this as depriving of civil rights), and also as "subversives"; inspected their every action; imposed impressment with the highest priority; excluded them from food rationing system; and many other social restraints.
And... how one could escape all these punishments? It was so easy -- just following the Name Order, even if ostensibly. Although I really admire those who refused the order, I don't blame those who followed it. Fundamentalism vs. pragmatism, I think. And my idea on 17% of refusal is not that all of them were especially patriotic; perhaps they valued family tradition high, and just refused to change surname and losing links to their ancestors.
--서상현
1.2. Hanja for personal names / 인명용 한자 ¶
It seems that there are, in addition to 기초한자, hundreds of Hanja granted by the Supreme Court (대법원) for personal uses on naming the newborns. For examples, 淇琪璂棋祺錤騏麒玘杞埼崎琦綺錡箕岐汽沂圻耆璣磯譏冀驥嗜伎.
- Did this come about some time after the Liberation?
- YES, as it has been required by law from 1990.12.31 according to http://lawpia.com/cgi-bin/CrazyWWWBoard.cgi?mode=read&num=233&db=sang&backdepth=1 . I would think 1990 was about the time when Korean government initiated e-Goverment project, and that Hanja limitation came from partly because computer could not handle too many Chinese characters in faster manner. To me, restrict one's name to what's available in a computer was one of the saddest thing to see. That's what I call 主客顚倒. - 김민수, 2003.8.9
- YES, as it has been required by law from 1990.12.31 according to http://lawpia.com/cgi-bin/CrazyWWWBoard.cgi?mode=read&num=233&db=sang&backdepth=1 . I would think 1990 was about the time when Korean government initiated e-Goverment project, and that Hanja limitation came from partly because computer could not handle too many Chinese characters in faster manner. To me, restrict one's name to what's available in a computer was one of the saddest thing to see. That's what I call 主客顚倒. - 김민수, 2003.8.9
- Is "人名用追加漢字表"'s Han-geul "인명용추가한자표"? The meaning according to Babel Fish don't seem to be consistent at all. For one thing, "name" is not mentioned.
- One more comment on this: Some people like me may says translation made by Bablefish is "language in garbage out".
.png ";)")
- 김민수, 2003.8.9
- One more comment on this: Some people like me may says translation made by Bablefish is "language in garbage out".
Q1 to Q1: What do you mean by "Liberation"?
- By "the Liberation", I mean when the Koreans are free from the Japanese's control and forced influence. Surely Koreans used it throughout the dynastic history, but why make an explicit approval now?
-- Menchi, 17:40 June 10, 2003
Q2 to Q1: Why did you think that "Liberation" would have some releationship with the added Hanja for personal names? I think the main purpose of this Hanja 'restrictions' made by Supreme Court was for the 'computer' not for anything else. - 김민수, 2003.8.9A2 to Q2: Short answer: DO NOT TRUST BABELFISH. Long answer: You probably got "Life additional Chinese character ticket". It is indeed possible translation, in some sense. Babelfish's nonsense is translation of 人命用追加漢字票. (You know Hanja, I assume.) 名 and 命, or 票 and 表 sounds just same in Korean, so the poor translator is confused.
I must add some comments about these "Hanja for personal names", for it is fascinating issue, at least for language kooks like me. .png ":-)")
(I again assume you are one of us, too.) But later...
(I again assume you are one of us, too.) But later...--서상현
1.3. Non-Hanja given names / 순한글 이름 ¶
Some people have chosen not to name their children with Hanja.
- What are some examples of those given names?
- How many syllables do these names usually have?
- And what kind of meanings do they usually cover? Hoped personality traits? (Beauty, courage...)
- What types of person are those parents considered to be? Unorthodox? Admirably patriotic? Excessively nationalistic?
-- Menchi, June 10, 2003, 09:40
- 큰별, 새봄,(are my friends) 하늘, 바다.. etc
- For the most part, 2 syllables (because it is general for korean.)
- Yes. (for some) And my example is natural object, 큰별(Big Star), 새봄(New Spring), 하늘(Sky), 바다(Sea).
- Patriotism and nationalism sat loose on them. Many non-hanja given-name have good sound and meaning. Maybe unorthodox have little influence on the parents. Han-ja given name don't go against a certain inclination.
-- Gravi sorry for my messy sentences
Messy? Not at all. - 큰별, 새봄,(are my friends) 하늘, 바다.. etc
Would you conclude that most Han-geul-only given names are simpler and more straight-forward than some Hanja names, which are very literary and often employ obscure Hanja? -- Menchi, 18:30 June 10, 2003
Expressed without Hanja, vocabularies sound more beutiful and poetic than expressed in Hanja. It's one of reasons they name newborns with Hanja. --PuzzletChung
Q: What types of person are those parents considered to be? Unorthodox? Admirably patriotic? Excessively nationalistic?
A: Considered unorthodox when this trait started, and still so in some degree, especially in naming of boys. Main reason is, with non-Hanja names you lose 行列 letter. (Do you understand what I mean by 行列? How to translate it into English?) Except for those who value family tradition high so refuse to let new generation lose concept of 行列, now Hangeul names are just considered normal. --서상현
行列 is another family name which is ordered by collateral line. However it exist in "given name field". (In example of 行列, brothers and cousins have same letter in their given name.) Considering 行列, parents can choose only 1 letter for their baby. --Gravi
"Generation name", or rarely "generational name", is what North American anthropologist call 行列.
InHanzi, 行列 means "systematic filing", i.e., vertical-horizontal, used to describe character alignment, mathematical matrices and military marches.
行列 is called 班次 in China, and 世代名 in Japan.
-- Menchi, 07:44 June 11, 2003
Q: Starting timeIn
Hanzi, 行列 means "systematic filing", i.e., vertical-horizontal, used to describe character alignment, mathematical matrices and military marches.行列 is called 班次 in China, and 世代名 in Japan.
-- Menchi, 07:44 June 11, 2003
Approximately when did this Han-geul-only naming trend start? Around the 1960s? The 80s? --Menchi, 07:10 June 11, 2003
1.4. Native names / 향토 인명 ¶
Before adaptation of the Chinese surnames, Koreans used to have tribal names for centuries, often with 3 or more syllables.
1.4.1. Native given names / 향토 이름 ¶
What were the native given names like? -- Menchi, June 10, 2003, 09:50
A: Here are some examples of given names: 막동, 타내, 올마대, 오마디, 오마대, 오망디, 오미디, 쟈가둥, 마딘, 도티, 고소미, 매뇌, 가리대, 올미, 더믈, 샹재, 검불, 망오지, 똥구디, 수새, 쇳디, 랑관, 터대, 흰둥, 우루미, 어리딩, 돌히, 눅대, 아가지, 실구디, 검둥, 거매, 쟈근대, 북쇠, 은뫼, 망쇠, 모리쇠, 강쇠, 곰쇠...
(Note: these names look *very* strange to modern Koreans. To other Nosmokians: if you agree with me, give me 동의한표. ^^)
Very important source in the study of native Korean names are document so-called "舍利靈應記", published in 1449. All names I listed above are from this booklet. Here's a story: On Dec 6, 1449, King Sejong and his vassals celebrated the completion of a Buddhist temple. During the celebration, sarira, or relics of Buddha is revealed, and they were pleased with its brilliant luster. So the king ordered his vassal 김수온 to write about this wonderment. At the end of this booklet, 47 native names of workers, are recorded in Hangeul, thus being the invaluable source for studies.
.png ":)")
--Some meanings of those names: 도티 is in modern Korean 돼지, simply "pig". 망쇠 is "망할 놈", or "will-ruin". Surely these names are of *bad meaning*, deliberately. Explanation: bad names are considered *good*, because they are belived to give the named longevity, or blessing. The idea is that if one has a too much good name or a name he does not deserve, it will annoy the Heaven. So even the prince is once named 개똥이, "dog dung". (It is the baby name of 26th king of Joseon dynasty, Gojong.)
--서상현
So those Sejong workers only have given names and no surname? -- Menchi, 18:40 June 10, 2003
They had surnames. 金, 李, 朴, nothing native, nothing particulary interesting. --서상현
They had surnames. 金, 李, 朴, nothing native, nothing particulary interesting. --서상현
I found on a webpage, which, in addition to listing those Sejong workers 서상현 mentioned, has several native names with meanings.
Qs:
a webpage, which, in addition to listing those Sejong workers 서상현 mentioned, has several native names with meanings.Qs:
- 간난이 (갓 낳았다는 뜻)
- 돌쇠 (돌같이 단단히 자라라고)
- 언년이 (딸이라 기대에 어긋나)
- 쌍가매 (머리에 가마가 둘 있는 사람)
-- Menchi, 18:00 June 10, 2003
I erased your guess based on meaning of Hanja transliteration, since they are totally meaningless. As you said above, 德國 is Deutschland, but does it have anything to do with "virtue"? Names you listed are purely Korean, so Hanja are used only to indicate pronounciation. It is called 假借 in Korean. I think Japanese concept of "ateji" comes close.
Here's translation I attempted: 간난이(newborn), 돌쇠(stoneguy), 언년이(awry-daughter, that is, parents expected son, but they got daughter, so they are annoyed), 쌍가매(double-hair-whirl).
I think these were entire-life names, but it's just my guess and very probably wrong.
--서상현
Is 쌍가매 (머리에 가마가 둘 있는 사람), translated "double-hair-whirl", describing a hypothetical person with wiry or curly hair? How does hair "double" though? Split-ends? -- Menchi, 08:00 June 11, 2003
I don't know what to call it in English -- when the look of natural hair on a head is figuratively spoken as a typoon, 가마 is the eye of the typoon. --PuzzletChung
It means the man who have two whirls of hair on the crown of the head. there is common saying in korea about "쌍가매" that is "쌍가매" must marriage twice. --musiki
1.4.2. Native surnames / 향토 성 (Partly unanswered: AnswerMe) ¶
What are some exmaples of these native surnames? -- Menchi, June 10, 2003, 09:50
Partial A:
Very good question, indeed. But you know, those native names predating Hangeul is not recorded, or recorded, but hard to interpret. (I may write about pre-Hangeul name records, if I have some free time.) And when Hangeul came out, Koreans, who had enough knowledge to read and write, thus whose names are recorded, mostly used Hanja names, so it is hard to find records of "native Korean names". It can even be the topic of interesting dissertations!
--서상현
Very good question, indeed. But you know, those native names predating Hangeul is not recorded, or recorded, but hard to interpret. (I may write about pre-Hangeul name records, if I have some free time.) And when Hangeul came out, Koreans, who had enough knowledge to read and write, thus whose names are recorded, mostly used Hanja names, so it is hard to find records of "native Korean names". It can even be the topic of interesting dissertations!
--서상현
I think, there was no "navtive" surnames. Maybe it was introduced when the Three kingdom's period (from China). There is surnames on that ages.
- 고구려 Go-gu-ryeo
King's name : 고(高)
etc. : 해(解), 을(乙), 예(禮), 송(松), 목(穆), 우(于), 주(周), 마(馬), 손(孫), 창(倉), 동(董), 예(芮), 연(淵), 명림(明臨), 을지 (乙支)
- 백제 Bak-jae
King's name : 여(餘)
The eights primary names : 사(沙), 연(燕), 협(), 해(解), 진(眞), 국(國), 목 (木), 백()
etc : 왕(王)· 장(張)· 사마(司馬)· 수미(首彌)· 고이(古爾)· 흑치(黑齒) ...
3.신라
King's name: 김(金) or 박(朴)
The six primary names: 이·최·정·손·배·설
etc : 장(張),요(姚) ...
1.5. Women's surnames / 여성의 성 ¶
Korean and Chinese women keep their surname after marriage, unlike their Western countparts, who, after marriage, drop their maiden names and change into the same surname as their husbands.
- However, sometimes in Taiwan, a married woman is called by the surname of her husband, like Miss Chang, who married Mr. Liang, would sometimes be called "Mrs. Liang" instead by her real surname. Does this happen in Korea?
- Many overseas Chinese women, especially the Cantonese, add their husbands' surnames to their own (not replace), like Mrs. Liang-Chang. Does this occur to overseas Korean women?
Some of overseas Korean women change surnames, to adapt the custom there. However, speaking in Korean they call each other in names with their own surname. I know that there is no Mrs. Liang-Chang in Korea 'adopting'(not adopting, you know...) her husband's surname, but some feminists name newborns with both of parent's surnames.
--PuzzletChung
--PuzzletChung